Comments on: Why GM cant sell cars: What employee pricing cant fix. http://www.schiffner.com/index.php/2008/08/21/why-gm-cant-sell-cars-what-employee-pricing-cant-fix/ "Always thinking one step ahead... Like a carpenter, trying to build stairs. " Thu, 29 Jul 2010 07:37:36 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0 By: David http://www.schiffner.com/index.php/2008/08/21/why-gm-cant-sell-cars-what-employee-pricing-cant-fix/comment-page-1/#comment-1003 David Wed, 29 Apr 2009 23:38:10 +0000 http://www.schiffner.com/?p=146#comment-1003 Car salespeople are like drones. They are taught to sell cars a certain way and only a certain way. They cannot think outside of the box because they are not empowered to do so. The whole process is designed to wear the person down. If you go to edmunds.com, there is a fantastic article called, "Confessions of a Car Salesman" that talks about the tragedy in becoming a car salesman. We recently bought a Toyota and there were some aspects of the transaction that I found distasteful so I know what others are going through albeit they do not seem as bad as the Chevy/GMC/Pontiac lines. The car dealerships will never quote the "best price" upfront because they want to maximize their profit which is why they obfuscate the buying process with that worksheet of four boxes, etc. I still don't understand why car dealers do not adopt the Saturn approach because it would seem easier on the dealerships and customers. I enjoyed the Saturn buying experience. Car salespeople are like drones. They are taught to sell cars a certain way and only a certain way. They cannot think outside of the box because they are not empowered to do so. The whole process is designed to wear the person down. If you go to edmunds.com, there is a fantastic article called, “Confessions of a Car Salesman” that talks about the tragedy in becoming a car salesman. We recently bought a Toyota and there were some aspects of the transaction that I found distasteful so I know what others are going through albeit they do not seem as bad as the Chevy/GMC/Pontiac lines. The car dealerships will never quote the “best price” upfront because they want to maximize their profit which is why they obfuscate the buying process with that worksheet of four boxes, etc. I still don’t understand why car dealers do not adopt the Saturn approach because it would seem easier on the dealerships and customers. I enjoyed the Saturn buying experience.

]]> By: George Athannassov http://www.schiffner.com/index.php/2008/08/21/why-gm-cant-sell-cars-what-employee-pricing-cant-fix/comment-page-1/#comment-1002 George Athannassov Wed, 29 Apr 2009 22:59:26 +0000 http://www.schiffner.com/?p=146#comment-1002 Good for you! I am a Toyota guy/fan for 16 years now. Not changing the vehicles nor the customer service. Both cars you are planning to look at are great, both produced in US ... so you are helping the US economy anyway ... Good for you! I am a Toyota guy/fan for 16 years now. Not changing the vehicles nor the customer service. Both cars you are planning to look at are great, both produced in US … so you are helping the US economy anyway …

]]> By: Dave http://www.schiffner.com/index.php/2008/08/21/why-gm-cant-sell-cars-what-employee-pricing-cant-fix/comment-page-1/#comment-564 Dave Wed, 26 Nov 2008 00:12:49 +0000 http://www.schiffner.com/?p=146#comment-564 Uh, Jake, I think you're missing the point (or at least my point). Im my case ALL I WANTED WAS A PRICE. The car was not for me, it was for my girlfriend. It would have taken 2 minutes of the sales reps time to look up the price and tell it to me. I then would have called Susan and told her the price. If she thought it was a fair price she would have driven up to the dealership to test drive the car. Chances are, unless the thing caught fire on the test drive, she would have bought it. The bottom line is, I didn't waste the sales reps precious time. HE WASTED MINE. All he had to say was "We're looking for $XX,XXX.00 for the truck". I would have said "OK, I'll call Susan" or "No, that's more than she wants to spend." A 2 minute conversation. Instead I got a 20 minute run around. She bought the BMW because I was able to call her and tell her a price. No games, no run around. That's all the rep at the Pontiac / GMC dealer had to do. I deal with the public all day long. Susan is a doctor and deals with the public. Yes, you get jerked around from time to time. It comes with the territory. But, that is no reason to treat everyone who walks through you door like an idiot. Some of us don't want to play games. We just want to buy a car. Uh, Jake, I think you’re missing the point (or at least my point).

Im my case ALL I WANTED WAS A PRICE. The car was not for me, it was for my girlfriend. It would have taken 2 minutes of the sales reps time to look up the price and tell it to me. I then would have called Susan and told her the price. If she thought it was a fair price she would have driven up to the dealership to test drive the car. Chances are, unless the thing caught fire on the test drive, she would have bought it.

The bottom line is, I didn’t waste the sales reps precious time. HE WASTED MINE. All he had to say was “We’re looking for $XX,XXX.00 for the truck”. I would have said “OK, I’ll call Susan” or “No, that’s more than she wants to spend.” A 2 minute conversation. Instead I got a 20 minute run around.

She bought the BMW because I was able to call her and tell her a price. No games, no run around. That’s all the rep at the Pontiac / GMC dealer had to do.

I deal with the public all day long. Susan is a doctor and deals with the public. Yes, you get jerked around from time to time. It comes with the territory. But, that is no reason to treat everyone who walks through you door like an idiot. Some of us don’t want to play games. We just want to buy a car.

]]> By: jake http://www.schiffner.com/index.php/2008/08/21/why-gm-cant-sell-cars-what-employee-pricing-cant-fix/comment-page-1/#comment-508 jake Wed, 12 Nov 2008 22:42:48 +0000 http://www.schiffner.com/?p=146#comment-508 OK firstly if you go into a car dealership to not buy a car your not too smart are you? thats like going into a grocery store asking the stock boy,who mind you gets paid hourly, ( sales is commissioned based no sale no pay) and asking him to help you pick out all the food your looking for give you the infromation about it and spend all the time with you to answer all your questions. Then after a hour or two sometimes more depending maybe even multiply trips, you go to the check out counter. You have the cashier ring it up wow 224. dollars thats alot for food I am actually all set for now then you say to the stock boy thats for your time and put that food back for me. Now think would you have been happy if you did all that repeatly for free in a sometime 12 hour day. Do you people have no compassion. Now as far as pricing don't go over price unless your willing to purchase something because what are you really accomplishing ?? And if you are going to purchase go back to the salesperson who spent the time with you its only fair and we are all human. Don't goto one dealership waste 2 hours of a salespersons time with the intention to go somewhere else the whole time to compare the price or if you do give them the last chance you'll find THEY ALL PAY the same for the car if your looking at a new car same brand the price will be close at any dealership when you get down to it. Let me tell you how sales can be and then the next time you go into a dealership you'll maybe treat the salesperson with some respect and common courtisy. Car salespeople usually work about 50-60 hours a week. They working almost all holidays and weekends. They only get paid by selling cars but people might go in that aren't interested in buying a car for months. They are doing research or the wife or husband is home and needs to go talk with them. they hear daily not buying today but can I go on 3 test drives thats for moving around those cars gathering the keys. They these car salesmen are on the phone doing follow up to try to call back these people that wasted hours sometimes days of there time. Then the people get made at them for calling them back. They move around the whole lot full of cars when it snows for hours for free. They don't have scheduled lunch breaks they have to come in one days off because a customer wants to pick up there car that day and can't wait. They have to worry about surveys that can mess up there bonus's for that month which means if you don't kiss ass you don't get paid. Not to mention if a salesperson has to drive to pick up a car at another dealership because its not in stock then split the deal because it was there day off and the customer came back and bought from another sales person. They could get paid as little as 25 dollars before taxs mostly minimum deals at dealerships are 100. SCions they get paid 75 no matter what all toyota salespeople. I could go on I used to sell cars its a hard demanding job and I would love to see anyone of you people that said they are lazy liars take advantage and are scum balls. Its funny because I found thats the customer would lie and try to take advantage much more then salespeople. KNOW your facts and next time you go into a dealership be nice to the salesman say thank you if they stay late afetr hours for you or come in on there day off. Tell them This. Lets be fair and honest with each other. I want a good deal I will purchase if you give me that and we will both be happy. Don't go whats your best price ok bye then go to another dealership because if you do think about it your truely a ass hole. Treat others the way yu'd like the be treated. OK firstly if you go into a car dealership to not buy a car your not too smart are you? thats like going into a grocery store asking the stock boy,who mind you gets paid hourly, ( sales is commissioned based no sale no pay) and asking him to help you pick out all the food your looking for give you the infromation about it and spend all the time with you to answer all your questions. Then after a hour or two sometimes more depending maybe even multiply trips, you go to the check out counter. You have the cashier ring it up wow 224. dollars thats alot for food I am actually all set for now then you say to the stock boy thats for your time and put that food back for me. Now think would you have been happy if you did all that repeatly for free in a sometime 12 hour day. Do you people have no compassion. Now as far as pricing don’t go over price unless your willing to purchase something because what are you really accomplishing ?? And if you are going to purchase go back to the salesperson who spent the time with you its only fair and we are all human. Don’t goto one dealership waste 2 hours of a salespersons time with the intention to go somewhere else the whole time to compare the price or if you do give them the last chance you’ll find THEY ALL PAY the same for the car if your looking at a new car same brand the price will be close at any dealership when you get down to it. Let me tell you how sales can be and then the next time you go into a dealership you’ll maybe treat the salesperson with some respect and common courtisy. Car salespeople usually work about 50-60 hours a week. They working almost all holidays and weekends. They only get paid by selling cars but people might go in that aren’t interested in buying a car for months. They are doing research or the wife or husband is home and needs to go talk with them. they hear daily not buying today but can I go on 3 test drives thats for moving around those cars gathering the keys. They these car salesmen are on the phone doing follow up to try to call back these people that wasted hours sometimes days of there time. Then the people get made at them for calling them back. They move around the whole lot full of cars when it snows for hours for free. They don’t have scheduled lunch breaks they have to come in one days off because a customer wants to pick up there car that day and can’t wait. They have to worry about surveys that can mess up there bonus’s for that month which means if you don’t kiss ass you don’t get paid. Not to mention if a salesperson has to drive to pick up a car at another dealership because its not in stock then split the deal because it was there day off and the customer came back and bought from another sales person. They could get paid as little as 25 dollars before taxs mostly minimum deals at dealerships are 100. SCions they get paid 75 no matter what all toyota salespeople. I could go on I used to sell cars its a hard demanding job and I would love to see anyone of you people that said they are lazy liars take advantage and are scum balls. Its funny because I found thats the customer would lie and try to take advantage much more then salespeople. KNOW your facts and next time you go into a dealership be nice to the salesman say thank you if they stay late afetr hours for you or come in on there day off. Tell them This. Lets be fair and honest with each other. I want a good deal I will purchase if you give me that and we will both be happy. Don’t go whats your best price ok bye then go to another dealership because if you do think about it your truely a ass hole. Treat others the way yu’d like the be treated.

]]> By: Andy http://www.schiffner.com/index.php/2008/08/21/why-gm-cant-sell-cars-what-employee-pricing-cant-fix/comment-page-1/#comment-494 Andy Wed, 29 Oct 2008 02:32:17 +0000 http://www.schiffner.com/?p=146#comment-494 A friend of mine ask me to help him look for a new car. We stopped at a chevy dealer, no one offered to help, or acknowledged we were there. He became very annoyed and we left, you lost a sale, he purchased a new Honda, as a result he said he would never considered a GM product, also word of mouth gets around. A friend of mine ask me to help him look for a new car. We stopped at a chevy dealer, no one offered to help, or acknowledged we were
there. He became very annoyed and we left, you lost a sale, he purchased a new Honda, as a result he said he would never considered a GM product, also word of mouth gets around.

]]> By: Dave http://www.schiffner.com/index.php/2008/08/21/why-gm-cant-sell-cars-what-employee-pricing-cant-fix/comment-page-1/#comment-481 Dave Tue, 14 Oct 2008 21:35:53 +0000 http://www.schiffner.com/?p=146#comment-481 The woman I'm dating is a very well paid professional. She is not a "car nut". To her cars are appliances; something to get her from point A to point B. She was driving a 1994 GMC Jimmy with over 225,000 miles on it. She bought it in 1995 and it has served her well. It's starting to rust badly and she was afraid it wouldn't pass (MA) state inspection. Friday, she called me and asked if I would find a new vehicle for her. Her only requirement is that it was an SUV and black in color. She preferred a GMC as the last one had served her so well. She had around $30,000.00 cash to spend, but would like to spend less. A "certified" used car was OK. She was going to donate her '94 Jimmy to the Kidney foundation, so she had no trade-in. Across the street from my business is a Pontiac / GMC dealership. On the lot was an '07 Envoy, black in color. There was a big "SPECIAL" sign on the windshield. I went in and, like the author, was ignored. I finally found a rep and asked the price of the Envoy in the lot. I explained that it was for Susan and that she could be here in 30 minutes if the price was in her range. I also told him that she'd be paying cash and had no trade-in. FOR 20 MINUTES I TRIED TO GET A PRICE OUT OF HIM! It was insane. This guy talked about everything but the price. I asked if he had an 08 on the lot with a sticker in the window. He said he didn't know. He finally said he would have to meet Susan before he could quote a price on the 06 or a new one. Huh? Down the street is a BMW dealership. They had an 07 X5 on their lot. It was black. I went inside and asked the price. They told me. No hassle, no run around. Susan arrived 45 minutes later, drove it and liked it. They knocked another $1500.00 off the price. She picked it up this morning. The difference between the Pontiac / GMC dealer and the BMW dealer was amazing. If this is how GM treats all its customers they will have a tough time selling cars in the future. I'm not sure the citizens of the US should be pumping money into this company. The woman I’m dating is a very well paid professional. She is not a “car nut”. To her cars are appliances; something to get her from point A to point B. She was driving a 1994 GMC Jimmy with over 225,000 miles on it. She bought it in 1995 and it has served her well. It’s starting to rust badly and she was afraid it wouldn’t pass (MA) state inspection.
Friday, she called me and asked if I would find a new vehicle for her. Her only requirement is that it was an SUV and black in color. She preferred a GMC as the last one had served her so well. She had around $30,000.00 cash to spend, but would like to spend less. A “certified” used car was OK. She was going to donate her ’94 Jimmy to the Kidney foundation, so she had no trade-in.
Across the street from my business is a Pontiac / GMC dealership.
On the lot was an ’07 Envoy, black in color. There was a big “SPECIAL” sign on the windshield.
I went in and, like the author, was ignored. I finally found a rep and asked the price of the Envoy in the lot. I explained that it was for Susan and that she could be here in 30 minutes if the price was in her range. I also told him that she’d be paying cash and had no trade-in.
FOR 20 MINUTES I TRIED TO GET A PRICE OUT OF HIM! It was insane. This guy talked about everything but the price. I asked if he had an 08 on the lot with a sticker in the window. He said he didn’t know. He finally said he would have to meet Susan before he could quote a price on the 06 or a new one. Huh?

Down the street is a BMW dealership. They had an 07 X5 on their lot. It was black. I went inside and asked the price. They told me. No hassle, no run around. Susan arrived 45 minutes later, drove it and liked it. They knocked another $1500.00 off the price. She picked it up this morning.

The difference between the Pontiac / GMC dealer and the BMW dealer was amazing.

If this is how GM treats all its customers they will have a tough time selling cars in the future. I’m not sure the citizens of the US should be pumping money into this company.

]]> By: » Blog Archive » Mullen Gets Some GM Love http://www.schiffner.com/index.php/2008/08/21/why-gm-cant-sell-cars-what-employee-pricing-cant-fix/comment-page-1/#comment-473 » Blog Archive » Mullen Gets Some GM Love Thu, 09 Oct 2008 20:16:27 +0000 http://www.schiffner.com/?p=146#comment-473 [...] for GM. You gotta keep the few customers ya' got left. Especially in the face of recalls and bad experiences taking up tons of code across the [...] [...] for GM. You gotta keep the few customers ya’ got left. Especially in the face of recalls and bad experiences taking up tons of code across the [...]

]]> By: PJ in Indianapolis http://www.schiffner.com/index.php/2008/08/21/why-gm-cant-sell-cars-what-employee-pricing-cant-fix/comment-page-1/#comment-435 PJ in Indianapolis Tue, 16 Sep 2008 18:59:45 +0000 http://www.schiffner.com/?p=146#comment-435 A car dealership that doesn't have a bunch of sales-jackals hounding you the second you step through the door? Show me the way! I'd much rather have to chase down a salesperson than beat one back with a stick. PS - the Vibe GT barely gets over 20mpg. That kinda sucks for a small car. Unfortunately if you get the smaller engine with better gas mileage you will find that many options and upgrades are not available to you. Advise to Pontiac: lose the big engine...it sucks. A car dealership that doesn’t have a bunch of sales-jackals hounding you the second you step through the door? Show me the way! I’d much rather have to chase down a salesperson than beat one back with a stick.

PS – the Vibe GT barely gets over 20mpg. That kinda sucks for a small car. Unfortunately if you get the smaller engine with better gas mileage you will find that many options and upgrades are not available to you. Advise to Pontiac: lose the big engine…it sucks.

]]> By: Justin http://www.schiffner.com/index.php/2008/08/21/why-gm-cant-sell-cars-what-employee-pricing-cant-fix/comment-page-1/#comment-428 Justin Sun, 07 Sep 2008 03:26:25 +0000 http://www.schiffner.com/?p=146#comment-428 My experience at a Chevy dealer was awful so its no wonder they can't sell a thing. I was falsely imprisioned at a dealership at a time when I didn't know what it was and what to do. Somehow I left with a Cobalt and its been nothing short of a headache. I tried to give it back 3 times. Once after signing papers, then when I turned around and went back, and after talking to their G.M. about the horrid salesmenship tactics, unprofessionalism of the entire staff, being lied to about what I was getting on trade in and my plain ole dislike of the car completely. I was then told I was suffering from buyers remorse when I was in fact in the market for a new car. Later I come to find out my car is leaking oil and that underneath my car is damage. I already didn't like the car now I'm having to put it in service for something that was done to the car previously before purchase. So that Thursday the car was in for repairs at a local dealership near me. I assumed I was getting warranty work for the damage but no I was charged for it. Over $550! I called the original dealership and spoke to the salesman and his reply was send it to your insurance and you'll get reimbursed. Another guy at the dealership I speak with later asks me why I didn't drive the car 100 miles to their service department for work. Bright idea! I also asked about college incentives as it was a month til I graduated from college and was told flat out "GM doesn't offer that, only desperate companies have those" so I assumed it was right since Ford offers one and VW. I later learn about the GM College Incentive for college grads about a month after purchase getting advertising. I now face issues with the car shutting down while driving. I cannot take it to any dealership I have been denied and according to GM they have the right to refuse me warranty service at any GM dealership. I have been told by many service managers that they will not get reimbursed for work done so I am stuck taking days off work to drive to have repair work done on my car that is covered under warranty. The car also leaks through its windows when it rains or is in the car wash so I have to be careful about water now and I deal with bad gas milage. I get 16-17 mpg driving around my small city here. Highway I get normally around 25-26 with me reaching 30 twice. One of those days, this past Saturday, was a day when I reached it and they were finally going to check on it but instead I am told my car says 30 so I'm getting the gas milage but in reality I'm not. It costs about $75 a week to keep my car fueled. I fill up on Fri of a payday then Wed because the car is below half a tank with me driving, get this, 68 miles. I then have to fill up again on the Friday coming up because by then the car has went around 50-60 and is back well below half a tank. GM has been awful in helping get this fixed and nobody seems to help. They also threw out my BBB suit without my knowledge or permission. I'm at a loss on what to do with this car. I just graduated college and I have to deal with searching for a job, but I now have to figure out how I can get around without my car stalling out before job interviews, trips to visit family, or regular city driving. Its no wonder GM isn't selling anything when they are making cars like mine, providing us with inadequate dealerships who they cannot control, and customer service that is completely and totally helpless in any situation. Also on that note calling Chevy Roadside they cannot be sure if you have to pay for assistance like I was told I would have to. They also will not pay you back for this supposedly "complementary" tow to the nearest dealership when your car has died. Thanks Chevy for giving me the worst warranty in America's history. My experience at a Chevy dealer was awful so its no wonder they can’t sell a thing. I was falsely imprisioned at a dealership at a time when I didn’t know what it was and what to do. Somehow I left with a Cobalt and its been nothing short of a headache. I tried to give it back 3 times. Once after signing papers, then when I turned around and went back, and after talking to their G.M. about the horrid salesmenship tactics, unprofessionalism of the entire staff, being lied to about what I was getting on trade in and my plain ole dislike of the car completely. I was then told I was suffering from buyers remorse when I was in fact in the market for a new car. Later I come to find out my car is leaking oil and that underneath my car is damage. I already didn’t like the car now I’m having to put it in service for something that was done to the car previously before purchase. So that Thursday the car was in for repairs at a local dealership near me. I assumed I was getting warranty work for the damage but no I was charged for it. Over $550! I called the original dealership and spoke to the salesman and his reply was send it to your insurance and you’ll get reimbursed. Another guy at the dealership I speak with later asks me why I didn’t drive the car 100 miles to their service department for work. Bright idea! I also asked about college incentives as it was a month til I graduated from college and was told flat out “GM doesn’t offer that, only desperate companies have those” so I assumed it was right since Ford offers one and VW. I later learn about the GM College Incentive for college grads about a month after purchase getting advertising. I now face issues with the car shutting down while driving. I cannot take it to any dealership I have been denied and according to GM they have the right to refuse me warranty service at any GM dealership. I have been told by many service managers that they will not get reimbursed for work done so I am stuck taking days off work to drive to have repair work done on my car that is covered under warranty. The car also leaks through its windows when it rains or is in the car wash so I have to be careful about water now and I deal with bad gas milage. I get 16-17 mpg driving around my small city here. Highway I get normally around 25-26 with me reaching 30 twice. One of those days, this past Saturday, was a day when I reached it and they were finally going to check on it but instead I am told my car says 30 so I’m getting the gas milage but in reality I’m not. It costs about $75 a week to keep my car fueled. I fill up on Fri of a payday then Wed because the car is below half a tank with me driving, get this, 68 miles. I then have to fill up again on the Friday coming up because by then the car has went around 50-60 and is back well below half a tank. GM has been awful in helping get this fixed and nobody seems to help. They also threw out my BBB suit without my knowledge or permission. I’m at a loss on what to do with this car. I just graduated college and I have to deal with searching for a job, but I now have to figure out how I can get around without my car stalling out before job interviews, trips to visit family, or regular city driving. Its no wonder GM isn’t selling anything when they are making cars like mine, providing us with inadequate dealerships who they cannot control, and customer service that is completely and totally helpless in any situation. Also on that note calling Chevy Roadside they cannot be sure if you have to pay for assistance like I was told I would have to. They also will not pay you back for this supposedly “complementary” tow to the nearest dealership when your car has died. Thanks Chevy for giving me the worst warranty in America’s history.

]]> By: Marc http://www.schiffner.com/index.php/2008/08/21/why-gm-cant-sell-cars-what-employee-pricing-cant-fix/comment-page-1/#comment-365 Marc Tue, 26 Aug 2008 20:28:14 +0000 http://www.schiffner.com/?p=146#comment-365 Please give GM and Ford $50 billion of out tax money. They so clearly deserve it. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26381283/ Please give GM and Ford $50 billion of out tax money. They so clearly deserve it.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26381283/

]]>